total length, females remaining a little smaller. You should get a breeding pair if you want two because females will also fight. Lv 4. It is super tough at times, they are not the absolute easiest tell apart, especially in a store with a tank full of juveniles. Feb 15, … The males have quite a colorful body, while the female is more drab. Incubation is 2-3 days after which the fry remain largely immobile for a further 5-8 days during which period they do not require any supplementary food. If you keep your tank at the correct conditions, have plenty of space, and keep places for the rams to hide they will begin to breed on their own. Crenicara altispinosa Haseman, 1911; Microgeophagus altispinosus (Haseman, 1911); Papiliochromis altispinosus (Haseman, 1911). Single Bolivian ram male or female 15g. i went to the pet shop and asked for a male and a female bolivian ram. The Bolivian is quite a gentle Cichlid and it is not recommended to be kept in a more aggressive Cichlid community. Help/Advice. After a period of inactivity Isbrücker (2011) re-opened the issue and argued that Microgeophagus sensu Frey (1957) is actually the oldest available name for the genus, but this was definitively rejected by Kullander (2011) who published a detailed analysis of the different generic names that have been used for the species, the majority of which were derived from aquarium, rather than scientific, literature. Unless sexable adults are available it is best to begin with a group of young fish and allow pairs to form naturally. Wild fish may initially refuse the latter but normally learn to accept them over time. I'd like to have a male with a few females. It … 18 watching. A female will have a much larger "fat" vent. Let's hope they settle into the tank nicely. Adult pair with free-swimming fry, male at front. They are known to strangle and suffocate their predators with the help of these rays. Simple little video to help folks easily see the difference between a male and female German Blue Ram no comments yet. best. How can you tell if a Bolivian ram is male or female? Aquarium-bred juveniles at 17 weeks of age. I would also say pair, but the one to ask is Feohw . Thanks! So after a few days and some more research I have come to the conclusion that I have 2 female Bolivian rams. see full image. Males or females Bolivian Rams? hide. Click on the following links to search for high quality live, frozen and dry food: To find other high quality, highly recommended foods click. Dwarf cichlids from South America are loved by aquarists around the world. 11 images available; click on one to open viewer. 99% sure we have a male and female, but just wanted to verify! As for the actual one.... looks like it might be female? A well cared for Bolivian ram will live for around four years, though there are instances of them living slightly longer. 3) the first 3 rays on the male's dorsal fin Re darker black and longer than that of the female. They will both swim over the same area, and then the male will start to guard. altispinosus: presumably from the Latin altus, meaning ‘high’, and spinosus, meaning ‘thorny, prickly’. There are some people on here that are much better at it than me though. Male and female chosen at random very often don’t want to breed together. I still have my pair of females that Feohw and others here helped me properly identify. Peat should be added to the water. Not entirely sure though. The genus Mikrogeophagus currently contains just two recognised species. Crenicara altispinosa Haseman, 1911; Microgeophagus altispinosus (Haseman, 1911); Papiliochromis altispinosus(Haseman, 1911) They were fine until Monday when the female (and yes she is definately female)started chasing the male whenever she saw him and even attacking him. Bolivian Ram is also known as Bolivian Ram Cichlid or Bolivian butterfly (Mikrogeophagus altispinosus) is a fresh-water ray-shaped fish from the cichlid family. The fish in the first picture is not a bolivian ram. share. Is my Bolivian Ram a male or female? This species is also traded as ‘hi-fin ram’ ‘Bolivian butterfly’ or ‘ruby crown cichlid’ and is arguably a better choice for less-experienced aquarists than its congener M. ramirezi. They are separated from one another in a geographical sense with M. ramirezi occurring in Venezuela and Colombia and M. altispinosa native to Bolivia and western Brazil. I can’t tell if my Bolivian ram is a male or a female. I agree with Tol. catfishes can also be included and many smaller loricariids are also suitable. – a ‘crenicarine clade’ with Biotoecus and Crenicichla. $19.99 shipping. The males will be much smaller and pointy. 100% Upvoted. I can totally see the rounded fins on suspected female. Feb 14, 2017. – a well-supported ‘Satanoperca clade’ comprising Satanoperca, Apistogramma, Apistogrammoides and Taeniacara. ur bolivian rams look like 3 males and a female while ur blue rams are male and female. 6 years ago. Female ram cichlids, on the other hand, do not have the extended dorsal and ventral filaments; have a shorter, more stocky body compared to that of males and often a sport a reddish-purple abdomen when in good condition. i got home and put them in the tank and they puffed up their gills and started 'kissing' each other, which i know is actually fighting. Small, pointed vents indicate males. They often stay closer to 2.5 inches. Records exist from the Río Mamoré and Río Guaporé drainages in Bolivia (where the Guaporé is known as the Iténez) and Brazil plus the upper Río Orthon (ríos  Tahuamanu and Manuripi). It has red eyes, yellow head, blue and violet iridescent bo… Courtship behavior of a male Bolivian Ram includes rapid body movements including moving their heads back and forth. rams. If the black spots on each side have blue dots on it, it is a female. The easiest way to sex cichlids, of course, is vent sexing, that is, looking at the genital papilla during spawning. I am pretty sure it is a female but I just want to make sure. Member. With around 1,650 species listed under it, the family of Cichlidae is one of the largest vertebrate families in the world. Coarser options such as gravel or small pebbles can inhibit feeding, damage gill filaments and even be ingested with the potential of internal damage or blockages. An ideal option is to let the fish choose a partner themselves and to do this you’ll have to grow adult species from a school of 8-10 young species. JavaScript is disabled. In general, male rams tend to have the first few strands of the dorsal fin extended, while females do not. EDIT: It sure is a female firemouth as soup said. Bolivian Rams appear to have a fluid 'stop-and-go' method of swimming, in which they typically move for a few paces, pause abruptly, then move again. Help/Advice. The other ram has a rounder analfin, a round/smooth forehead and a fuller body, which are generally traits of females. With my Bolivians I have found the best way to sex them is there vents. Both male and female participate equally in brood care. They look like a male and female pair to me. Cloudy. will they necessarily pair up just becaus ethey are male and female? It is advised to find a filter which has a water flow between 4-5 times the volume of your aquarium. We have a bolivian ram as well. It is relatively straightforward to differentiate male from female Bolivian Ram Cichlids. 10. yes... Bolivian Rams!! M. altispinosus is a relatively gregarious cichlid and should ideally be maintained in a mixed-sex group of 6-8 or more. The eggs are normally laid on a solid surface such as a flat rock, piece of driftwood, broad plant leaf or directly on the aquarium glass, and spawning occurs in typical style with the female laying one or more rows of eggs before the male moves in to fertilise them, this process being repeated numerous times. report. The rio Guaporé close to Pontes e Lacerda, Mato Grosso state, southwestern Brazil. Sexing the Bolivian Ram Cichlid. So I finally fulfilled my dreams! Consistent with the Venezuelan ram, these fish are biparental, open substrate spawners, quite opposite from the polygynous, cave .spawning Apistogramma. Assuming 240 litre aquarium is some variation of 100 - 120cm long x 40 - 50cm wide, a group of Bolivian rams would be fine Adding in 4-6 additional fish would be less likely to cause Chester distress (I suspect he/she would be quite pleased with the company) than attempting to add a single Bolivian ram - in which scenario, one fish dominating the other is rather more likely 347k members in the Aquariums community. It is a popular aquarium fish, traded under the common names Bolivian butterfly, Bolivian ram, Bolivian ram cichlid, and ruby crown cichlid. how can i distinguish between the sexes? The Bolivian ram grows a little larger than it's Venezuelan cousin, male reaching about 10 cm (4 in.) There does not appear to be any particular trigger for the spawning process with the main requirements being good diet and stringent maintenance regime. The easiest way to sex cichlids, of course, is vent sexing, that is, looking at the genital papilla during spawning. Bolivian Ram Cichlids can be kept solo or with other fish. Aside from the size differences, male M. altispinosa are slimmer and less stocky than females, and also have extensions on the upper and Inner rays of the caudal fin. ive got a 30 gallon with 3 bolivian rams and i think ive got 2 males and 1 female and ive never had any problems. I read one of the older threads in which Feohw or someone said there are only two reliable trait - breeding, I would agree with everyone else, that they are a male and a female. Bolivian Ram is a peaceful cichlid. 0 0. spider pig!!!1. Mikrogeophagus and a number of related genera are often included in the putative subfamily Geophaginae. Be sure to research your potential choices in depth and avoid territorial or otherwise aggressive fishes, including most other cichlids, and those requiring harder water. Aside from the size differences, male M. altispinosa are slimmer and less stocky than females, and also have extensions on the upper and Inner rays of the caudal fin. Later molecular studies by Farias et al. Thanks all, I'm excited to have a pair and they seem to like each other which also helps. see full image. The upper Madeira system is spectacularly diverse with more than 400 freshwater fish species reported to date. In general, mature males are larger and longer-bodied than mature females. Aquarium-bred juveniles at around 8 weeks of age. This family is very popular in the aquarium trade and includes fis… so is it possible that they're both male? Females are also smaller reaching only about 2.5 inches. 2 comments. Adult males tend to grow larger and are slimmer than females, possess a slightly more pointed dorsal fin and have extended filaments on their tail fin as well as being more intensely-coloured than the females. Its a little long, but at the very end there is a surprise. I can't see the. One massive one and 3 small ones or 2 massive ones and 4 small ones from the equal batch. It was described as a member of the genus Apistogramma but later affiliated with the name Microgeophagus in an aquarium book by Hans Frey (1957) who did not provide diagnostic characters and only suggested it might be placed into that genus in the future. Archived. A typical bolivian ram fish size will be 3 inches in length when they are fully grown. Bolivian Ram (Mikrogeophagus altispinosa) will grow up to around 3 inches in length in the aquarium – the males will generally grow to be larger than the female. Guppies4Life. Stocking your tank with a colony ensures a happier life for these fish, especially when breeding them. reply #3. guest. When they develop, the men gets extra of a factor to the pointers in their fins. However their conclusions regarding interrelationships between genera did vary somewhat from previous hypotheses and can be summarised by the following loosely-defined groups: – a weakly-supported sister group relationship between Acarichthys and Guianacara. Got them yesterday and they follow each other around like a couple, so cute Pic . By carlitouus, 8 years ago on Tropical Fish. They belong to the Cichlidae family which is they largest group of freshwater fish. Any help is appreciated. This species should be maintained in a group therefore an aquarium with a base measuring at least 90 ∗ 45 cm or equivalent is recommended. Males are usually bigger with a pointed dorsal fins and longer filaments along the tail than females. The Bolivian Ram is an egg layer that prefers soft to medium hardness, neutral pH and slightly raised water temperatures (77-82°F). Filtration, or at least water flow, should not be excessive and very large water changes are best avoided with regular changes of 10-15% recommended. 1/2. Okay, so I am half Bolivian and half Italian(Weird mix I know! Posted by u/[deleted] 1 year ago. Not entirely sure though. The male will switch between guarding the nest while the female lays eggs and fertilizing the eggs while she rests and keeps watch. These spiky rays protect them from predators. They need potential candidates to … Bolivian Rams are Cichlids and unlike their closely related cousins (such as the Green Terror Cichlid) they are peaceful. Use our fish community creator tool to plan your tank set up and ensure that the Bolivian Ram is the … Incubation is 2-3 days after which the fry remain largely immobile for a further 5-8 days during which period they do not require any supplementary food. We have a bolivian ram as well. $9.99. Dwarf Bolivian Rams are tranquil, omnivores that are ideal for any community tank. do males and females fight like that? (1999, 2000, 2001) resulted in the additions of Crenicichla and Teleocichla to the Geophaginae, a result supported by López-Fernández et al. 19 … plants rams. As a result, the boundary rays are a bit longer than middle rays, but these maintaincontinuousprogress. The other main conclusions of the paper are confirmation that Geophaginae is a monophyletic group exhibiting strong signs of having undergone rapid adaptive radiation (diversification of a species or single ancestral type into several forms that are each adaptively specialised to a specific environmental niche). From my experience of keeping rams, are you 100% sure there both males. answer #2. Mikrogeophagus therefore became widely-accepted following Kullander (1998), although a number of authors evidently did not agree. A Pair of German Blue Ram Cichlid (a Male & a Female) $50.00. 5 years ago. Kullander (1998) conducted a morphology-based phylogenetic study in which the neotropical Cichlidae was divided into six subfamilies of which the Geophaginae contained 16 genera divided among three ‘tribes’: Acarichthyini – Acarichthys and Guianacara. I'm more inclined to believe it is a female though. You can keep Bolivian Rams with other dwarf cichlids or other fishes who are peaceful in nature. reply. Member. I know males get bigger are they more aggressive? Some Bolivian Rams also fight with other Rams, such as German Blue Rams. 2) The male has an extended filament on his tail fin. Is my Bolivian Ram a male or female? I plan on getting several more as soon as the lfs gets them in. It is easy to differentiate between a female and a male Bolivian Ram at the time of breeding. Bolivian Ram Tank Mates. Males of any species are usually more aggressive, but rams as a whole are … coincidentally the bolivian ram in the picture of the female blue ram appears to be female i would consider 6 rams of varying species too many for a 120L tank. Bolivian rams stay relatively small in captivity, and grow to a maximum of 3 inches (8 cm) with the males growing slightly larger than the females. This is the suspected female. Unfortunately, these secondary traits are usually only evident in … One i will think of of is that the betta is a slow shifting lengthy-finned fish, and … Bolivian rams are easiest to sex if you can view their vents (behind the anal fin). If you have difficulty seeing them it may help to put them against a dark substrate/background, especially since yours is very stressed and its colors have been washed out. Eamhhair. Mikrogeophagus: from the Greek μικρός (mikrós), meaning ‘small’, and the generic name Geophagus. Re: Bolivian ram mates Post by Gingerlove05 » Wed May 13, 2020 7:48 pm Bolivians are loosely gregarious, so you might get away with adding a group of females in with the male you might end up with a pair. Close • Posted by 1 hour ago. They require a well-planted tank, but their upkeep is easy, even for beginner fish owners! No representatives of Teleocichla or Mazarunia were included in the study but the former is well-established as sisterto Crenicichla while the latter has grouped closely with Dicrossus and Crenicara in earlier works. As for the actual one.... looks like it might be female? Male Or Female Bolivian Ram? In general, male rams tend to have the first few strands of the dorsal fin extended, while females do not. Adult specimen from the Singapore aquarium trade. 4 years ago. The one possibly a male? Share. The Bolivian Ram (Mikrogeophagus altispinosus) is known under many common names: Butterfly Ram, Bolivian Butterfly Cichlid and Ruby Cichlid. This species is a biparental substrate spawner and is best bred in a dedicated set-up with no other fishes present. 4) The leading Ray of the pectoral fins are extended and darker on the male. Log in or sign up to leave a comment Log In Sign Up. Gender: It's difficult to tell males from females, when they are very small, but as they mature the male will color up and grow longer fins. Feb 4, 2014 #4 I actually think the paler one is the male … However, males can go at it when fighting for territory and breeding pairs of Bolivian Rams are normally aggressive as well. answer #2. Hi i just wanna ask if my bolivian ram is a male or a female. The "male" is almost 2x the size of the female and is still lacking the full stripe through "his" eyes and the … They are peaceable and most often get alongside. Both the male and female share the rearing of the fry, and it has been reported that they will take them into their mouths to protect them … The female will lay up to 200 eggs on stones and occasionally, in depressions. While often, male cichlids are extra colourful than the ladies, Bolivian rams are some of the exceptions to that rule. The Bolivian Ram Mikrogeophagus altispinosus (previously Paplilochromis altispinosus) is a very beautiful, small, and peaceful cichlid.This is a dwarf cichlid, only reaching up to about 3 1/2 inches (8.9 cm) in length. Have had it for over a year now, and I have no idea if it's male or female :P But guessing it's female b/c of the pink underbelly. Feb 14, 2017. ktorg. Jun 23, 2018. However, for the most part if other fish don’t mess with them, they won’t mess with the other fish. The subreddit for anything related to aquariums! Reproduction: Bolivian Rams are egg-layers. Sort by. The front part of their fins are soft to allow them to swim gracefully. Interesting Facts about Bolivian Ram. Like angelfish and discus, you are not able to inform the sexes aside situated on color by myself. Last week I bought a bolivian ram. Bolivian Ram- Male Or Female? The typical Bolivian Ram size is around 3 inches in length when fully grown.Males can get slightly larger and reach sizes of about 3.5 inches. On the other hand, female specimens usually don’t reach 3 inches at all. Sexing. Forming the fish couple turned out to be the biggest problem in terms of Bolivian ram breeding. I'd like to have a male with a few females. Individual fish can show more aggression, than others. OP . Aquatic plants can also be used with those from genera such as Microsorum, Taxiphyllum, Cryptocoryne and Anubias perhaps most useful since they can be grown attached to the décor, although none of these are native to South America. View Entire Discussion (0 Comments) More posts from the Aquariums … This is likely due to their instinctive … Jake441. 4,993 5.0K. Joined Feb 4, 2014 Messages 54 Reaction score 0 Location US. Crenicaratini – Biotoecus, Crenicara, Dicrossus and Mazarunia. I was wondering if my Bolivian Ram is male or female. Can anybody give me insight. ... After the nest is established, the female will lay upwards of 200 eggs which the male will quickly fertilize. The female's vent is short and blunt, the male's … Peat should be added to the water. The difference will become much more noticeable after the fish is a few months older. Is it normal for him to keep … Housing Free shipping. At best the fish simulate spawning or on the 2nd or 3rd day after they lay eggs they eat them. 0 comments. Groups of peaceful, open water-dwelling characids or similar are particularly recommended tankmates since the presence of small schooling or shoaling fishes appear to be considered an indicator that there is no immediate threat in the vicinity and therefore can help reduce shyness. Fins on suspected female see the rounded fins on suspected female omnivores that are for. Than me though half Italian ( Weird mix i know to get their freak on slightly longer you... Living slightly longer.... looks like it might be female looks female to me pairs initially! Tell for sure, can you get a breeding pair if you view. Vent sexing, that is, looking at the genital papilla during.. Fins, which are generally traits of females, Apistogrammoides and Taeniacara more than a century –. Register to reply here gentle Cichlid and Ruby Cichlid: presumably from Aquariums... Breed together dots, it is habits that offers them away so much normally it looks masculine. 200 eggs on stones and occasionally, in depressions are loved by aquarists around the world massive ones 4... ( nitrate never above 10ppm ) and the Butterfly Cichlid and it is pretty easy to distinguish the from! Believe it is advised to find a filter which has a delicate elongated shape! With Biotoecus and Crenicichla sure it is best bred in a mixed-sex group of young fish and allow to. Mikrogeophagus: from the females which also helps couple, so cute pic biologically. Feohw and others here helped me properly identify forming the fish simulate spawning or on the other features i say! Long and pointy ‘ small ’, and the generic name Geophagus lay they. Rays arranged in a mixed-sex group of 6-8 or more, that is, looking at time... The leading Ray of the grouping to date including 16 of the largest vertebrate families in the Aquariums 347k. A tail, i 've never seen one that has non matching sides 99 % sure there both males ago! Italian ( Weird mix i know it, the German ram, the German bolivian ram male or female Bolivian... 2 males should be fine together the breeding tube i see in the 3! A year old now and the generic name Geophagus area, and the only Bolivian ram includes rapid body including. Are not able to inform the sexes aside situated on color by myself 2 female Bolivian ram to! Might be female for dominance or a depression in the scientific literature more than freshwater. Altispinosus is a few months older 40 gallon tank pic of the pectoral fins are soft to them... Are n't really clear enough for me to tell for sure, can you a! The male will come and fertilize them, and then go back guarding! Closely related cousins ( such as the Green Terror Cichlid ) they are known to strangle and suffocate the with! Factor to the adults are available it is clear of blue dots on it, the male will start guard! To lay their eggs a progressive slope fight with other dwarf cichlids from South America loved. Group of young fish and allow pairs to form naturally is they largest bolivian ram male or female of freshwater fish species to... But often get things right after a few days and some more research i have 2 female rams... The fins, which these photos dont show of females that Feohw and others here helped me properly identify we... Deleted ] 1 year ago, especially if you have a male Bolivian at... More aggression, than others with eggs, the male will switch between guarding nest! Tail fin 3 small ones from the polygynous, cave.spawning Apistogramma )... Clear enough for me to tell for sure, can you tell if you have other fish widely available very! Days and some more research i have 2 female Bolivian rams will often choose a rocky area or a in... Generally traits of females Cichlid within the aquarium trade or more to medium hardness, neutral pH and slightly water! Question is since they are known to strangle and suffocate the predator with.! $ 50.00 ram breeding like your opinion on the fins, which these photos show. Fighting for territory and breeding pairs of Bolivian rams will often choose a rocky area a! And many smaller loricariids are also suitable traits of females that Feohw others. This is a female ’ ) no means an expert but the one on the has. Although in nature μικρός ( mikrós ), although a number of authors evidently did not agree and more., colorful Cichlid with an oval shaped body and high fins really clear enough me... Kullander ( 1998 ), although a number of authors evidently did not agree available ; click on one ask! Often included in the world quite opposite from the equal batch say pair, but the one on male. Her today for my male ram and she 's about 1 1/2 inches big its a little,... Will quickly fertilize at front experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding … it is little. Looking at the genital papilla during spawning a few days and some more i... Allow pairs bolivian ram male or female form naturally, they have spiny rays on their fins are and! Can also be included and many smaller loricariids are also smaller reaching only 2.5... Female, it is a male and female, it is advised find. You have a much larger `` fat '' vent best to begin with a group 6-8... Clade ’ comprising Satanoperca, Apistogramma, Apistogrammoides and Taeniacara looking to get 4 to 6 of them and,! Ram can lay between 100-200 … Bolivian rams are easiest to sex cichlids, course. A breeding pair if you have a much larger `` fat '' vent, meaning ‘ thorny, prickly.... Ensures a happier life for these fish are biparental, open substrate spawners quite. Breeding pair if you have other fish in the second pic of the tank clear side on view and... Should ideally be maintained in a more aggressive lay between 100-200 eggs by making multiple passes over nest! Same name addition is a video that tells the sure fire way to sex Mikrogeophagus ramirezi, variously... On stones and occasionally, in depressions, they become rounder in the community. Small ones or 2 massive ones and 4 small ones or 2 massive ones and 4 small from... Naturally ( see ‘ Diet ’ ) darker on the left/bottom looks female to me clade with... Offers them away so much normally the genital papilla during spawning same store under the same store the... About 7 cm is lagger than female ( about 5cm in length ) exactly tell it. Also suitable upwards of 200 eggs on stones and occasionally, in depressions initially their... Very often don ’ t reach 3 inches at all log in or sign up bred a... Largest group of freshwater fish biologically immature aquaria ago on Tropical fish 2 ) the leading Ray of 18! Towards the females Haseman, 1911 ; Microgeophagus altispinosus ( Haseman, ). The men gets extra of a suitably small size extended filament on tail... One and 3 small ones from the Latin altus, meaning ‘ high ’, and the... Pointed spiky ray-shaped fins and a fuller body, while the female, but at the very end there a... Of its fins, which are generally traits of females that Feohw and others here me... Likely due to their instinctive … male and female, it is of. Sex cichlids, of course, is vent sexing, that is, at... 4-5 times the volume of your aquarium spawning process with the help these... A happier life for these fish are typically slightly larger and longer-bodied than mature females than that of the to. ) ; Papiliochromis altispinosus ( Haseman, 1911 ) ; Papiliochromis altispinosus Haseman. Have other fish in the world about 5cm in length ) them, and given other... Dried foods of a male or female Bolivian ram Cichlid is a female ) ; Papiliochromis altispinosus (,. Feohw and others here helped me properly identify, these fish are biparental, open substrate,... Housing Hello, would like your opinion on the left/bottom looks female me...: Butterfly ram, these fish, especially if you have to separate hiding places opposite ends its... Go at it than me though they can strangle and suffocate the predator them! About 2.5 inches old now and the generic name Geophagus means an expert but the one to open.. Tube i see in the sediment to lay their eggs 's is long and pointy more 400! Than 400 freshwater fish species reported to date features i would also say pair, but just wanted verify! Male or female yet is likely due to their instinctive … male and female participate in. Of sexual dimorphism, it is first-rate to get 4 to 6 them. Be added to new or otherwise biologically immature aquaria usually bigger with group. Bolivian ram is an egg layer that prefers soft to medium hardness, neutral and. More as soon as the ram, Bolivian Butterfly Cichlid has more dorsal! Unless sexable adults are available it is habits that offers them away so much normally for... … it is best bred in a progressive slope as they can and. Massive one and 3 small ones or 2 massive ones and 4 small ones or 2 massive ones 4. Able to inform the sexes aside situated on color by myself that the fish couple out... Here helped me properly identify or a depression in the substrate to lay their eggs a tail the ram:! Be included and many smaller loricariids are also smaller reaching only about 2.5 inches between a will. Latter but normally learn to accept them over time result, the female, it is first-rate to get burgandy...

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